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Frequently Asked Questions - Fuel Injection
 
SBD Throttle Body kit on Fiesta ST150
Engine Running Rough
Fitting throttle bodies to 1.6L Vauxhall engine
Barrel throttle set up
Increase of power without affecting driveability
2.1L Pinto upgrade to throttle body system
Taper Throttle kits
2.0L SBD Taper Throttle kit into a Astra GSI
 
New ECU for Multi-throttle Kit
 
Barrel throttle set up
Question: Last year I purchased a 2003 Caterham SV with a SBD 2.3L Duratec. I was told it's a 235hp engine and although it runs great and is very powerful and tractable, I would like some more power. I'm considering swapping to a Cosworth barrel throttle setup and was told by other Caterham owners I should seek your advice. I would expect to see perhaps a 8-12 hp increase, does this sound about right?

Answer:The throttle specification you have there is our earlier design but still extremely good, they give good driveability, maximum achievable performance through this design of throttle body would be in the region of 280bhp.  Our latest design of throttle body is a completely revised design, the injector is much further out and interacts with the butterfly to allow the engine to produce more performance as the engine is tuned further.  Our latest 2.4L version we are just under 330bhp at the moment. 

The roller throttle design was an idea taken from F1 engines, when a particular rpm range required meant that the engine pulse would actually hit the butterfly and this disrupted the air flow, so a barrel throttle was designed so that there was nothing in the way of the pulse when the throttle was wide open.  This is fine for a Formula 1 engine because of the conditions it is driven under, but when this design of throttle is used on a normal road based engine is creates various issues.  At light throttle during either low speed running or whilst the throttle is being opened rapidly, the air has to travel through the open slot on one side of the barrel then traverse across the barrel to the slot on the other side, which are diagonal to one another.  This disturbs the air flow considerably making for poor driveability and poor throttle response.  The other misconception is that when the barrel is fully open, because there is no restriction of any kind the engine will therefore produce more power.  What a butterfly actually does for you is two things; it directs the air because it is not fully open, it also creates tumble which gives a better mix.  The only time a butterfly would create a loss of performance is if the amount of air flow the engine requires is insufficient due to the overall area of the throttle body being too small, but this would also apply to the barrel throttle.

At the level of performance you are currently at, I would be looking at the exhaust manifold design to ensure you have the best design possible as this is as critical as any other part of your engine or intake system and the level of tune of your engine itself.  So in short even if you fit the most efficient intake system or the most efficient exhaust or the highest tuned engine, if one of the three components does not allow the engine to perform, you would not gain performance.  So at the moment I would say, the throttle bodies are not the issue.

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SBD Throttle Body kit on Fiesta ST150
Question: I am researching ITB's for the Fiesta ST150, but had a question which I wondered if you could help with. I've been looking at your TP203bhp kit, and also saw that a chap called Dyrr Ardash has a kit fitted to his Fiesta ST here. My question, how would you go about the fly-by-wire throttle on the Fiesta ST? Does it need replacing with a cable? If so, is this all included in the kit?

Answer: All of our systems are now motorsport based due to the costs involved of interacting with the standard management systems, I did look at the kit that was produced by DRM and think that it was an extremely well designed product and couldn't imagine how much money they had spent developing the kit to interact with the standard management system. The reason we don't do anything like that on road based cars is that you can spend many of thousands of pounds if not tens of thousands of pounds for something that only has a short life before Ford stop producing it or change the design. This means that you have little if any chance in re-cooping your development costs, which has to be spread across the number of kits you sell. This is the reason why we stick to motorsport, since we can replace the standard management system where we can control every part of the system and not be hampered by what the road based and evermore complex systems which are continually monitoring to see if the car in every aspect is performing correctly. If anything is picked up by the standard ECU and not operating as it should, as a minimum it will turn an engine warning light on and normally put the engine into 'limp' mode. Finding all the information that the stock ECU requires is a massively complex job, taking many thousands of hours to decypher with possibility that the next time your car is serviced Ford update software and maps completely changing everything you have already deciphered.

When fitting a motorsport management system none of this becomes a problem, the only problem as far as you are concerned being the end user is that the standard management system not only controls the engine, but a mass of other accessories fitted to the car, which again is expensive to be developed for a road car.

The car you have been looking at on our website belonging to Dyrr is a pure race car and therefore none of the problems mentioned above apply. Obviously if you are using a totally stripped out car for fast road and track use only, then this kind of conversion would be the route to go.

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Engine Running Rough
Question: I went to a track day, the car was running a bit rough, but naively I put that down to the mapping being a bit out. I could not fix the noise issue so ended up bringing the car home - it was good to get the car running though, shame I could not run longer as the track was just starting to dry out.

Anyway on inspection yesterday, the rough running was down to the injector wires for cylinders 3 and 4 being on the wrong injectors - not sure how this happened but the upshot is that, having run the car for a few laps like this, I think I may have knackered the pistons on these 2 cylinders - I will confirm for sure this coming weekend.

Symptoms are very poor idle, removing ignition to these 2 cylinders does not make the idle any worse, swapping coils and plugs with cylinders 1 and 2 makes no difference (removing coils from 1 and 2 stalls the car), wet plugs, and colder exhaust manifold on cylinders 3 & 4, difficulty revving, would also explain why everyone was faster than me!

I know that if I am taking the engine apart to put in new pistons in I should probably upgrade everything, but at this stage I am keen to get the car running without spending a load more cash.

Replied on the phone: We received this email from one of our customers, you can see that he was obviously worried that he had a major problem. Since I hadn't see the vehicle that long ago, I knew that it was unlikely to be anything serious but it is quite often that a very small problem can lead the owner to think the worse.

I spoke to the customer on the phone and said from what he had described in the email, it sounded like a simple question that the butterflies had potentially closed down or gone out of sync, this lets in less air at tickover and means that the engine runs richer on the cylinder or cylinders where this has happened. This causes the spark plug to soot up and even if the spark plug is removed and cleaned when tested outside the cylinder e.g. laying on top of the engine will get a good spark. Unfortunately when the spark plug is placed back into the cylinder again, the pressure created within the cylinder increases the resistance and the spark inside of jumping the gap tracks down the side of the plug. The process that the spark plug has gone through when it has been playing up quite often prevents the spark plug from recovering. If the spark plugs are replaced with a brand new set, check that all butterflies are synchronised and that the correct kgs of air per hour is going into each cylinder correctly and that the TPS sensor voltage is correctly set up. This will normally rectify most problems.

His worry that the injectors plugged in incorrectly could have caused some damage, this would not be the case as the fuel being supplied was the same to all cylinders.

Obviously you can see from his final email, his problems are now solved and everything is running perfectly. This is a mistake that is regularly made by customers with engines that are perfectly programmed and then take them to a rolling road and end up spending large sums of money having the engines reprogrammed to rectify a fault which had nothing to do with the programming. Simply a small issue with the throttle butterflies going out of sync causing a rich mixture which gives very sooty plugs, when all that was required was accurate resetting of the butterflies.

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Fitting throttle bodies to 1.6L Vauxhall engine
Question: I have a Vauxhall Nova MK1 1.6 GTE Injection and I would like to fit throttle bodies to the engine but I am unsure how to go about this and what auxiliary parts I will need please can you advise me.

Answer: We have several people carry out a similar conversion of the type you are requesting. The components on our part of the conversion are fairly straightforward. We can supply an ECU, wiring harness, throttle bodies and a few other accessories required. But because your engine is quite old, at the time of its production the electronics used were fairly basic. What we suggest to most people carrying out this kind of conversion is to raid some of the components from the later 8V engines, fitted to either the Corsa or the Nova. This will help to keep your costs down.

The components I suggest you try and source are the distributorless coil pack and HT leads, as well as the mounting brackets. The front trigger wheel/bottom pulley and crank sensor. This will then make your engine ready for fitting the electronics. The only thing we haven't got access to is an inlet manifold to mount carburettor style throttle bodies. You will need to scour the second hand market for a manifold to suit your application.

The prices of the ECU, wiring harness, throttle bodies, throttle position sensor, fuel rails, fitting kit and a base programme to start the engine are available on a downloadable price list on our Web site. With the latest equipment we have, it will be possible to map your engine either on the road or rolling road, to make the engine drive smoothly and produce as much power as possible. All the cars we have programme so far, for the 8V 1600 engine, have usually had cam and head work as well, because of this in the programmes we supply for you to start your engine with, it would not be exact because of the variations in the engine specification we have already programmed.

Links: 1.6L Taper throttle body kits

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Increase of power without affecting driveability

Question: What are the options to increase power without affecting driveability. I am also keen to avoid expensive engine work, as it is very smooth at low revs, I am currently running carburettors.

Answer: The best way to go & to maintain drivability is the injection route. As an example, the standard 2.0L XE engine on 45's should produce about 180BHP, however the same engine on taper throttle bodies will give you 208BHP and is still very reliable & driveable. If you email me more information about your engine, car and its intended usage, i.e. road, track day or competition, I will be able to advice you further.

Links: 2.0L Taper throttle body kits | 1.6L Taper Throttle body kits | Duratec Taper Throttle body kits

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2.1L Pinto upgrade to throttle body system
Question: I have a 2.1L Pinto, twin DCOE 45s, Kent FR33 cam, flowed head, big valves... - about 160BHP and I want to convert it to throttle body injection (I know it's old-tech, but I like it!!!). Would the MBE ECU be suitable, is there a suitable crank sensor available etc?

Answer: There is not a problem in making any engine run on fuel injection. Unfortunately the earlier engines, which do not have existing trigger wheels, require a trigger wheel to be fitted. Also because the engine has not been used on fuel injection that often, your engine would need to be mapped which also adds to the cost (I do have a programme for 220bhp 2.1L Pinto, which is the only Pinto I have previously mapped).

I will certainly list all the basic components you require and although you say you like the Pinto engine, you must remember that by the time the engine is fully programmed and up and running (with huge improvements over what you currently have), it would still cost you a lot more than putting a similar injection system onto say an XE or Zetec engine or the New ford Duratec Engine.

A list of the components I recommend you would require:
1. MBE 9A4 ECU for fuel and ignition
2. Wiring harness completely self contained and made to very high quality with built in relays
3. Wasted spark distributorless coil pack
4. Coolant temp sensor
5. Air temp sensor
6. Crank speed sensor
7. Universal crank trigger wheel
8. Throttle bodies (pair of twin 45s or 48s with idle bleeds)
9. Fuel rails for above
10. Throttle position sensor
11. Injectors (you could either use second hand 2.0L 16V XE injectors which can be picked up from a breakers, or we could supply a high flow injector which will cope with all your needs)

The ECU will come with a base programme, which allows you to start the engine on, but it would need to be mapped to match your engines requirements on the road, rolling road or dyno.

Finally, don't let anybody tell you that buying a few bits and pieces, such as an ECU and wiring harness and you will be up and running with a fantastic engine within a couple of hours. You will find yourself connected to one of those machines that appears to keep emptying your pockets of money, with the words you are almost there, every time some money leaves your pocket. By the time you have finally finished and got your engine completed, although it won't appear to have cost as much in one go, over the long term you would end up spending more money than you have ever intended.

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Taper Throttle kits
Question: As I am in the process of starting to performance tune my car and was looking at all the options available until I found your website and seen the kits, until now I have been looking at engine conversions and turbos and nitrous oxide conversions but when I seen the kits that you sell, well my jaw dropped like WOW!! So I am eager to find out if it can be done, what would I need and how much they cost.
I was interested in the 250bhp kit in particular and with further reading it says that your exhaust manifold should be used and a dry sump kit too. I would like to know if it would be undrivable on the road as one power graph on show started at 4000rpm and I was wondering if this came across the entire kit ranges. Please could you help me know a little more and the prices involved.

Answer: As you tune any engine to produce more power, the power band moves further up the rev range. This occurs in steps, i.e. the standard throttle body kit TP208 produces a stronger torque curve from 2,000rpm onwards over the standard engine. The TP225 engine produces an increase in torque from 2,700rpm onwards. Once you get to about 250bhp, the engine spec does become less driveable if used as an everyday road car. I would say 250 should be considered as the maximum to use as a reasonably comfortable road car. Normally the maximum I would suggest would be a 235bhp as this retains much of the driveability of the standard road car. Also because the engine doesn't need to be revved as high, the oil system can be simpler since less stress is applied to the engine itself. Fitting a dry sump system to a road car can be done, but is quite difficult due to packaging the system around components such as power steering. If you give me an idea of your intended budget, I could price you better, however the kits prices are available on the downloadable price list. We always try and achieve maximum reliability and will not compromise this over performance.

Links: 2.0L Taper throttle body kits

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2.0L SBD Taper Throttle kit into a Astra GSI
Question: Is it possible to use one of your kits on a road car? I drive an Astra GSI 16v 2.0L with a 20xe engine in it and was wondering if your kits could be applied to my car with a Calibra turbo 6 speed box converted to front wheel drive?

Answer: There is no reason why most of the kits could not be fitted to your engine. The only problem that usually occurs as the output is increased, is that the gear ratios become unsuitable due to the fact that the engine will rev higher. For example, a 6 speed turbo box is normally designed for an engine that revs to 5,500 rpm where a 250 engine, could easily rev to 8,500 rpm.

Links: 2.0L Taper throttle body kits | Multi-throttle kits | Carburettor kits

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New ECU for Multi-throttle Kit
Question: I have an Vauxhall Astra Mk 2 with a 20XE engine and a SBD 196 kit, I was told that the 912/v2a MBE system from the old kit is now outdated. Which system do I have to use now and can the custom loom be used with the new box?

Answer: The new type of ECU is the CAN based MBE9A4, if you look on the web site under Management systems, full details are shown there. You will need to change the wiring harness to accommodate this new ECU.

Links: Multi-throttle kits | MBE9A4 ECU

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