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Frequently Asked Questions - Serial based Management Systems 967 and earlier
 
When purchasing second hand ECUs, please note the following;

If the ECU is still a current issue i.e. advertised on our web site, it can be reprogrammed, costs from £90.00 + VAT per unit.

If the ECU is an older model, it is recommended that the ECU be only used for the type of engine it is already programmed for. If you require an older model reprogrammed, costs are from £140.00 + VAT per unit dependant on the age of the ECU. It can cost more for the unit to be reprogrammed than the purchase of new ECU. In addition, if the unit breaks, the older units (e.g. 900 to 967) are irreparable.


Output improvements using MBE ECUs over standard ECUs
MBE Management System installation instead of upgrading cam profiles
Auxiliary function loss after adding MBE ECU
2.5L V6 power dip with standard management system
Sensors required for MBE ECUs
Lambda sensor types
Lambda sensor for MBE956 ECU
Issues after changing a throttle position sensor
Synchronize crankshaft sensor with cam sensor using MBE970
Crank sensor problems
Differences in injectors when programming
Input pin suitability
Problems starting engine after 5 months non use
Alterations to ECU maps
Adaptive control problems
967ECU compatibility with Windows 7
Easimap 5 on Windows 7 computer
Making a Serial Mapping Lead
 
Synchronize crankshaft sensor with cam sensor using MBE970

Question: I have a MBE970 with a C20XE, I need information to synchronize the crankshaft sensor with the cam position sensor. I would like to drive the injection sequentially and need the basic setting. I have a trigger wheel on the crankshaft with 60-2 and a cam sensor with a bolt in the exit cam and inductive sensor.

I have done the following setting: When number 1 cylinder is on its firing stroke, rotate the crank until the crank sensor is 3 teeth past missing gap. The cam sensor should be aligned at this point with its tooth. If I use this setting, then the engine runs very badly and the tachometer jumps. If I set the cam sensor 30-40 degrees later, the engine runs well. Can you help?

Answer: It is a very long time since I have worked on the MBE970 ECU as they have been obsolete for many years.  The last software written for that model of ECU was over 11 years ago now. 

When we ran them sequentially, it was only the fuel that could be run sequentially and at the time we found no benefits of the using the sequential set up apart from the extra duty cycle available.  I never remember setting up the camshaft synchronisation, but my guess at the information you have given me is the cam pulse is too close to the missing tooth and the software is having difficulty in differentiating between the missing tooth and the cam pulse, so when you have moved the two further apart by the 30-degrees, the ECU is able to distinguish the difference. 

Unfortunately I cannot give you any more information on that as I not longer have a computer capable of running the software.  I also know that the computer that stored the original software for the serial based ECUs failed several years ago, so no other information is available.  I would also suggest great care is taken with your MBE970 ECU as the components within it are no longer available and it cannot be repaired if failure occurs.  Provided you are happy to continue and not going to spend a large amount of money on the dyno or rolling road as the latest CAN based ECUs work in a completely different way, so if the unit fails only very limited data could be copied across. 

MBE ECU Range

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Differences in injectors when programming

Question: The base calibration you provided mentions a "690P" injector in the comments section.  On the engine dyno, we utilized the Bosch "Green Giant" injector that is fitted standard in  the Caterham CSR, and increased fuel pressure to 4-bar, instead of the standard 3-bar.  The engine made good power/torque, and injector duty-cycle remained less than 80%.  The engine dyno used a Pectel engine management system.

Besides making adjustments to the injector on-time map, is there anything else related to the characteristics of the two different injectors, that I should consider, and need to change in the MBE calibration to support the Bosch injector?

Answer: I take it you are now going to place the MBE ECU on the dyno and map your engine with the MBE ECU using the base information you have achieved with the Pectel system.  I quite often have to do this kind of work when converting from other makes of ECU.  The injectors that were used to build the base map you had were effectively a 690cc injector at 3Bar and you were using a Bosch Green Giant injector which is normally rated at 440cc, I believe.  If I was about to begin on the dyno, the way I would start would be to work out a percentage of change for swapping between the two injectors, but this is only a crude first quick step to get me up and running. 

I would divide 690 by 440 (if this is the flow for the injector) at the pressure you were using  =  1.57 (57%), I would then take the fuel map and multiply it by 1.57 which would make it 57% greater fuel delivery, which is effectively the difference between the 2 injectors.  That would then give me my starting point.  I would also modify the throttle start fuel map by the same amount and if I wanted to be very accurate, I would obtain the battery voltage compensation from the injector supplier and modify the battery voltage comp map.  Once I have done this, which would be normal standard preparation for the dyno or rolling road, I would then begin mapping the MBE.

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Lambda sensor for MBE956 ECU
Question: I want to put a new lambda sensor and enable the lambda control, currently the sensor has been removed and the lambda control is disabled. I checked the value in the Map, the target is 2,5 like a wide band. What Lambda sensor will be suitable for the MBE 956e ?

Answer: The MBE956 ECU can only use a narrow band sensor, it is a very old ECU and has been out of production for more than 14 years.  If you wish to enable Lambda control, the ECU may not be calibrated.  Due to the software being very old, it will be quite a lot of work in setting up Lambda control and it will only be suitable for use for emissions.   The cost that you would incur could be become quite expensive if you require us to calibrate the system partially due to the difficulty in remembering how to set up a system of this age and the fact you would need to send the ECU to us.  If the ECU should ever fail, it is also no longer repairable due to the fact that there are no components available any longer. 

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Issues after changing a throttle position sensor
Question: I was hoping maybe you could help me. I am running a MBE967EF ecu on my Vauxhall 1600 16v powered mini. I have a map loaded in and have had the car driving on this no problem however the TPS failed so I have replaced this. My problem is that since replacing it I cannot get the car to start. I have traced this down to the injectors not firing. Using a multimeter I have measured both pins at the injector plugs and am getting almost 12v at them both. I assume when cranking and running that one of these pins should go to earth and thereby fire the injector but I am not getting this. Is there anything obvious that you can think of as this is driving me mad. As I say the only thing I have changed from the car running to not running is the TPS.

Answer: The software has two main safety features when it comes to a throttle position sensor, normally if the throttle position sensor fails and you are on track with the engine running, the ECU assumes full throttle which gives the most amount of fuel and normally the least ignition which is a safe failure mode. When cranking the engine to start it, the ECU automatically gives it an increasing amount of fuel as the throttle is opened, but at full throttle the injectors are turned off. This allows the user to apply full throttle if the engine is flooded, crank the engine which will then clean them due to the large intake of air combined with the injectors being turned off.

When the throttle position sensor has either failed or set outside its calibration range, the ECU will again automatically assume full throttle, therefore during cranking there will be no fuel pulse as you have detected with your voltmeter. It can be assumed since the engine was running before the throttle position sensor had failed and since replacing the engine is still not running that the throttle position sensor is likely to be incorrectly set up. If it is one of our ECUs running on throttle bodies which has been calibrated by SBD, the idle voltage would be 0.36v and should rise as the throttle is opened to something in the region of 4 – 5v. If the ECU has been re-calibrated or uses a different throttle body or throttle pot set up, this value could be different and you will need to look at the throttle index map within the ECU to find out the value it should be set to.

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Input pin suitability
Question: Could you please confirm what input pin would be desired for a pull up or pull down 5v digital signal.

Answer: The easiest way to confirm which pin is suitable is simply to plug into the ECU with the MBE985 USB/CAN interface (basic mapping equipment). Easimap 6 will then automatically select the correct .ec2 file to match the software as the ECU you are proposing to set up gearbox control with. You will then be able to go to programmable pins and look at the drop down option for each of the pins and see if this option is available. Because software is continually updated and changing, new functions and options will become available over time and there is always a possibility that the software version that your customer's ECU has, has different functions available and therefore this can only be confirmed by plugging into the ECU or having a copy of the map from the ECU along with knowing the software version the ECU is currently using.

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Crank sensor problems
Question: I have a problem with the crank sensor it showed bad crank tooth pattern and wiring error. Initially I thought it might be due to the fact that I did not use the trigger wheel supplied by you but one that was supplied by QED (one piece with front pulley). I have replaced it with the one supplied by you with the Ford crossflow kit. Still shows bad crank tooth pattern as well as wiring error. Crank sensor is the one supplied with the Ford cross flow kit (Magneti Marelli). Loom is the standard rear wheel drive. Extension to link it up to the crank sensor was supplied by you.
I had to make up a bracket for the crank sensor because the twin cam front cover is quite different from the ford crossflow, but I went into pains to get the position and gap right so I think there should be no problem there. I haven´t started measuring through the wiring yet because frankly I did not know what to look for yesterday. I would be grateful for some tips.

Answer:The warning you are getting is to help point you in the right direction, it is impossible to get the software to diagnose the exact fault, it simply means that it is struggling to read crank teeth correctly in order to start the engine. It could be any number of things but I have listed them in order of which they should be checked:

1. If battery voltage is too low during cranking, the time between each tooth may be inaccurate due to speeding and slowing down of the engine. To eradicate this possible cause, get a separate battery and connect the positive and negative terminals of our wiring harness to it, place the switched ignition wire directly to the positive post when attempting to start, make sure there is no connection with any other part of the car, connect the fuel pump directly to the car's battery and not our system during this test. This means that the ECU, injectors and coils are the only drain on this battery, then when you attempt to start the car, the car's battery has no connection and cannot cause voltage drop. Even if this does not fix the problem, I suggest you leave it wired in this way until the problem is fixed, make sure you maintain the batteries in a full charged state otherwise you may find that you have actually fixed the problem but due to low battery voltage, the engine will not start and you will assume you haven't fixed the problem. This is particularly important when you are starting a new engine for the first time on fuel injection.

2. Due to the fact that your engine is new to fuel injection, the fuelling may be out by a factor, this makes it much harder for the engine to start because of the possibility of the incorrect amount of fuel being available during starting and this cannot be accurately determined until the engine is running (catch 22). The software itself shows the potential for an error in crank trigger wiring because it's unable to calculate the tooth pattern to it's satisfaction, therefore it will not fire a spark until it is happy to do so. If the engine is slowing down in this period and speeding up due to compression or other issues, this could take it outside its operating window for safely starting. Remove the sparks plugs and see if this fixes the crank trigger warning, obviously once the plugs have been removed the engine will turn over easier and give a more consistent speed allowing the ECU to calculate the tooth pattern more accurately. Because the warning you see on Easimap needs to say on the screen long enough for you to read it, there may have been a time during cranking that the ECU was able to calculate the tooth pattern correctly but due to the fact that the fuel was totally incorrect, the engine was unable to start and the engine slowed down due to poor battery voltage and therefore wouldn't start because of 2 separate problems.

3. Crank sensor wiring, normally if you are using a 36-1 trigger wheel, the crank signal is on pin 1 of the crank sensor, if your trigger wheel was 60-2, the signal would be on pin 2 of the crank sensor (this is MBE specific). You may not actually know which is pin 1 and which is pin 2, but the easiest way to test it is to simply swap the 2 wires around and carry out the test twice. This is easiest to change in the ECU connector hood taking only seconds. See the link to the hood information and the crank sensor wiring. Since you are running 36-1, just confirm by looking inside the software in basic engine set up that the trigger wheel is configured for this, provided when you ordered the kit you confirmed that you were running 36-1, the ECU will be configured correctly.

4. Crank sensor position, ensure the sensor is mounted correctly. The sensor that you are using in combination with the trigger wheel should run directly over the centre of the tooth with a 0.5mm to 1mm gap.

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967ECU compatibility with Windows 7
Question: Do you or MBE have any plans to make these ECUs compatible with the Win 7/usb combination?

Answer: Unfortunately we had to stop producing the MBE967 a couple of years ago, although it was a very nice ECU, the components that were used to build it were becoming harder to find. Also serial technology has become obsolete as far as computer manufacturers were concerned quite sometime before this so now all our current ECUs use USB to CAN technology. We have one engineer at MBE whose main task is to try to keep up with the updates that Windows carry out on virtually a daily basis to make sure our current technology remains exactly that. It is impossible to do this kind of work with discontinued products.

Links: MBE ECUs

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Easimap 5 on Windows 7 computer

Question: I need to buy a new laptop, will Easimap 5 work on a Windows 7 machine and will my USB/serial adapter still work. If not what do I need to buy?

Answer: The problem you have is that serial ports have been phased out over a period of time & although you can use USB to serial convertors, each upgrade of Windows (auto-updates) appears to make it worse. This was the reason why we had to stop producing the serial type ECU because it was becoming much harder to get them to communicate with systems that do not want to communicate with this kind of older technology.

Although I still occasionally use Easimap 5 & my current everyday laptop (Dell Latitude D640) uses Windows 7, it will communicate with the MBE967, each update that Windows does it appears to get ever harder for it to do so. Many of the companies that we deal with, who regularly program the MBE serial based ECUs try to maintain an old laptop specifically put aside with a serial port for this purpose.

The other problem you will encounter is that USB to serial convertors can be very flaky when it comes to make & model of laptops i.e. you could have one that works perfectly with one manufacturers model of laptop & not with another model even in the same range, so you may need to try many different makes until you find one that suits your laptop. I normally use a Targus model (quite expensive version), but one of my friends with another model of Dell found the cheapest one would work.

My suggestion would be if you intend on doing very little work with the MBE967 i.e. just checking it then either an old laptop or USB convertor that would allow you to do simple checks. If you have to do major programming take it to one of our recommended rolling roads or you wish to do a lot of work for yourself in the future, consider at some point updating to the current MBE9A4 & wiring harness, which allows you to use USB to CAN.

Response: Thanks for your e-mail, as I suspected it would be down to luck if it worked. Bought a Dell Inspiron M5030, cheapest that Tesco's do, plenty good enough for the use I need one for, £262. Comparing it to the last computer I bought its incredible for the price and it appears to be reasonably fast, just wish it had more than 2gb of ram, only £17 to upgrade at Crucial to 4gb thus it may happen sooner than later. Installed Logworks 2 and Easimap 5, no problems apparent, quite surprised there, expected compatibility issues since they are both old programmes.

Anyway, plugged in my Sewell serial/usb, the one that I bought with my LM1.Downloaded the latest Pilgrim drive, installation appeared to fail first time, reinstalled, appeared OK and tried connecting the LM1. It connected by LM Programmer fine and it downloaded a very short logging file from the LM1 OK, fingers crossed now. Opening Easimap it finds Com 3 thus hopefully it will work OK, too cold to go in the garage and find out at the moment. Seem to remember I had to tweak the settings when I first used the setup in XP thus it may not be sorted yet.

I don't connect to the ECU very often, if it ain't broke don't fix it but it's nice to be able to check the settings once a year and since my old Dell was over 8 years old I think it must be living on borrowed time. If both laptops work I will be delighted. Thanks again.

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Problems starting engine after 5 months non use
Question: Hello. I recently went to start my vehicle after 5 months and when turning the ignition on I have a clicking relay for up to 5 seconds. I have changed the relay and the same thing happens. I think the power may have been left on feeding the ECU until the battery went dead. Would this have damaged the ECU?

Answer: It should not have caused any damage by leaving the ignition feed on. On very rare occasions, if people attempt to start their car with a flat battery & a jump pack, the ECU gets confused every time you attempt to start the car. The starter motor takes all the current & the flat battery leaving nothing for the ECU, so the ECU shuts down. As the current spikes & dips during this period, the ECU randomly wakes up & then shuts down again causing it to misfire fuel & charging of the coils. In most cases you simply get wet plugs which makes the problem worse, the plugs then track & will not spark properly. if you remove the plugs & test them, they would appear to work fine even when dry, but under compression in the engine they will not work properly.

You should fully charge your battery or replace it, buy a new set of spark plugs & then attempt to start the engine. The engine should then start correctly. The only potential damage you could have done is cranking with a very flat battery with the ECU in it's confused state, it could have overcharged it's internal amplifiers. The ECU would need to be returned to us for testing & repair at a cost of £150 + VAT, however if the ECU is found to be in perfect working order, there would only be a £90 + VAT testing charge.

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Output improvements using MBE ECUs over standard ECUs
Question: I know you can never predict how much extra output you would get from any one ECU or engine, but what would you expect to see on average from a standard 1400cc Vauxhall engine that has a MBE ECU attached to it?

Answer:As you say it's very difficult to predict the likely gains you would get, all I would say is that General Motors & all other production based car manufacturers have a different goal to yours. They are trying to achieve emissions, fuel economy, long engine life & all at low cost, because you are after performance by fitting the MBE allows you to optimize fuelling & ignition to produce the best performance at every speed & load. If you were to change other components, e.g. CAT & exhaust, there are potentially more gains to be achieved & the MBE can be programmed to achieve the best results.

When we used to produce the systems for Opel for the Group N cars (showroom class cars) back in the mid-nineties gains varied between 10 - 20bhp, but it would be impossible to predict what you could expect to see.

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Alterations to ECU maps
Question: I would like to make some alterations to the standard map to improve cold starting (the car struggles to idle when cold). However, I've just realised that my laptop (being fairly current) doesn't have a serial port. Is it possible to connect the ECU to a USB port (and if so can you supply the Farnell parts list) or do you know if the regular serial coiled leads that you supply can be used with a USB to serial adapter?

Answer:If your laptop is not equipped with a serial port you will need to purchase an adaptor with the appropriate software from a computer supplier. This will allow you to convert your USB port to run serial.

Once you have downloaded the software & have everything talking correctly, your ECU will almost certainly ask you for a PIN code, all our Ecus are coded with 1111. I would suggest before you attempt to make any adjustments that you look at the device info, as the throttle bodies & fuel pressure must be correctly set and the settings for this are written within this section.

Most importantly of all, is before you make any adjustments make a copy of the maps stored in the Ecu. This way if you make any mistakes you can restore your original map, if you lose your original copy we would have to make a charge to replace it. You should find sufficient information within the help file to carry out any modifications you think necessary & you should familiarise yourself with the system before attempting any changes.

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2.5L V6 power dip with standard management system
Question: I have had my 2000 W Vectra SRI 2.5v6 with a de-restricted air box with panle filter and cat back manex s/s exhaust system on a rolling road and it ran 175bhp with 156bfl, however it has a dip in power in mid range. Can you advise me whether a chip and a 4bar fuel pressure regulator fix this?

Answer: The main problem you have when tuning further than you already have, is the limitations of the standard management system. Having a custom built chip will help to a degree, but the air flow metering limits what you can do (look at our web site for more details). We did do work in the past on a few rally cars with a special MBE 970 ECU which was very successful and more recently some throttle bodies are being developed to allow the engine to breathe a lot better. Provided your standard management system is fitted to a car which is a few years old, you should find that the ECU only controls the engine and doesn't control many other accessories as a lot of the newer cars do. The MBE970 ECU has now been superseded by the MBE9A8 ECU, which would be suitable for your requirements.

Links: MBE9A8 ECU

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MBE Management System installation instead of upgrading cam profiles
Question: I have bought a 2.0 16v engine with the following work done, Coscast 2.0 16v skimmed, polished & ported head, new lifters, Schrick 268 cams, 2.1 bottom end using 88mm forged Omega pistons, compression ratio of 11.8:1, knife-edged lightened & balanced crank, new shells, ARP bolts & new oil and water pumps. I’m looking to up the cam profiles. What would you suggest?
Would your basic MBE unit be sufficient? Can it be supplied with a 'map' to get me started?

Answer: I would think the cam profiles you are currently running are about the most aggressive you can safely use on the standard intake and management system. If you were to fit the MBE management system, this would give you the ability to tune the engine still further without the problems that you would get from the air flow meter on the standard system. But if you were to pick a too aggressive cam profile, lets say over 290 degrees and still retain the original intake manifold with a single butterfly, the engine would become difficult and unpleasant to drive. The effect would be similar to what was achieved on group A engines, in the early to mid 90s. You would have to set your idling speed higher and higher and the engine would pull much later up the rev range. If you intend on achieving over 200bhp, I would suggest you add throttle bodies to the MBE management system in the very near future. As the four individual butterflies would overcome the problems mentioned.

By adding the management system now, at the very minimum you would be able to optimize what you have currently got. This would make the engine far more driveable and should give you good improvement in torque and bhp. I would then suggest you went for throttle bodies, followed by a larger camshaft at that point.

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Lambda sensor types
Question: You folks seem to be the experts that know the most about the MBE ECUs and Easimap software, so I was wondering if you could help me. I am converting a Triumph TR-3 to fuel injection (don't ask why) using an MBE 967 ECU. I would like to enable the lambda control function using a Bosch oxygen sensor. However, to do so, Easimap wants to know if the sensor is an LA type or an LSEU type sensor, but the help files don't tell you how to identify which type of sensor one has. Do you have any idea which choice I should use? Also, what would be the best target value to set? I was thinking of using 0.47 V to start with, unless you have another suggestion.

Answer: Unfortunately lambda control is extremely complex. There are at least a dozen parameters that need to be set up. We have carried out extensive testing in trying to develop a sensor that was suitable for programming. Unfortunately every 3 or 4 wire sensor we found became inaccurate, as they got hot. So over the years of developing the software has changed considerably from software version to software version. Eventually we gave up trying to use this type of sensor and are now developing our own lambda sensor controller, for use with the latest 5 wire sensors. Because of this the software over the past couple of years has been slowly modified to accommodate this change. The only other type of sensor system that would work is a system such as a Bosch LA system. But these are in the region of £2,000. We are hoping to produce a system for around the £300 mark that you could use to map your engine on.

So I would advise you to leave the lambda system disabled. If when you have completed the task of getting your engine running, you wish us to map it for you, we can fit one of these lambda systems to the car which will allow you to take the car out driving while the system maps itself. We would be quite happy at the time to show you how this is done, so once our own affordable unit is available, you could use one for yourself.

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Auxiliary function loss after adding MBE ECU
Question: What auxiliary functions does the standard management system controls, that would cease to function after adding your ecu?

Answer: Unfortunately, every car model in different countries varies. it depends on what accessories have been fitted by General Motors to your car and can only give you a guide. You would need to check into which systems are controlled by your engines ECU. For example, some cars only have trip computers, this would no longer function. If your car happened to be an automatic, some of the later gearboxes receive information from the engine ECU. Unfortunately, the list is endless and in current and future models, the problems will only get worse.

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Sensors required for MBE ECUs
Question: I am going to use a MBE 941 ECU on a Ford Escort Cosworth. It would be great if you could tell me what for sensors i need? And do you sell any coils so i can run distributor less ignition?

Answer: The 941 ECU has been discontinued. You will need to use the current MBE9A4. You would need to fit a 60-2 or 36-1 trigger wheel to your Cosworth engine. You can usually use the original Cosworth sensor or we can supply a special one (CRK-SEN5), boost pressure sensor, air temp sensor and a distributorless coil pack (COIL-4). We would normally recommend replacing the water temp sensor, we would use a Bosch version. This keeps things simpler than trying to match your Ford sensor. We would also recommend you use high ohmage injectors i.e. 12 - 14.

Links: MBE9A4 ECU | Crank Sensor | Boost Pressure Sensor | Air temp sensor | Coil pack

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Adaptive control problems
Question: I have a 967E ECU which you supplied & the Easimap software etc. I’m trying to get the adaptive control to work, but according to the help file the lambda target needs to be set at a value other than 0.00. (i.e. 0.00 disables adaptive control). I have been unable to modify this value & my engine is currently running with a lambda of 0.79 –> 0.83 which is borderline for the SVA emissions requirements – hence it would be helpful if I can get the adaptive system working to try and target it nearer to stoichiometric (lambda 1)….I can then get the car on the road, run the engine in & then I’m looking forward to a full mapping……. Can you provide any information?

Answer: The adaptive control is a memory which stores the corrections and the lambda target value controls the target value that the lambda will attempt to trim to. Now that's the easy part. All the under lying functions that you cannot see are very complicated and up until recently, we have used two types of sensor. The first which is extremely accurate but requires a very complex piece of electronics to give an accurate output (approx. £2,000 - £3,000) has to be calibrated with underlying maps which you cannot see and are far too complicated to explain. The other type of sensor is using the ECUs software to control a fairly cheap sensor. This has been even more complicated due to the inaccuracies in the sensor and trying to accommodate these problems within the MBE ECU (effectively trying to get a £400 ECU to do the job of a £3,000 piece of equipment). But what has happened in the last 6 months to a year, is that a new range of sensors which are far more accurate and cheaper, have been produced. But they need a processor to control them. There are a few systems coming on the market, but most of these are around the £1,000 mark. We are hoping to produce our own system, which we expect to be finished soon. We are hoping the price to be around £300 - £400

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Making a Serial Mapping Lead
Question: How do i modify a standard connecting lead from my lap top to the ecu, to enable me to change the rev limit?

Answer: If you use the link, it shows you how to make a mapping lead. The PIN code to our standard maps is "1111".

Do not use a standard Serial Lead as this could corrupt your maps/program, damage the ECU or even the Laptop.

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Please check our customer cars section which may help answer your questions
 
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